Episode 25-
Hien Ngo
Professor Hien Ngo on C.A.R.E.
Compassion, Altruism, Respect and Excellent are the tenets that have guided Professor Hien Ngo throughout his career.
He’s currently the Dean and Head of the Dental School, and Director of the Oral Health Centre at the University of Western Australia. Indeed, Hien is a prolific educator who has taught thousands of students about minimal intervention dentistry and cariology all over the world.
He was instrumental to the establishment of the Minimal Intervention 2020 projects in Adelaide and other dental schools in South East Asia. He serves on the board of the Academy of Minimally Invasive Dentistry and the editorial board of Journal of Dentistry, Journal of Oral Health and Preventive Dentistry.
Hien also has an amazing backstory. He grew up in Vietnam during the war, relocating to the Philippines and later the US. with his father. He finally settled in Australia, which he now calls home.
Resources
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What's In This Episode
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Hien’s incredible journey from Vietnam to America.
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How Hien approaches mentorship.
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A few acronyms that guide Hien.
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How Hien approaches teaching.
Transcript
Recording:
Extraordinary.
Innovative.
Integrity.
Courageous.
Curious.
Thoughtful.
Brave.
Unafraid.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
There is a place where technology and art meet, where work and play are one and the same. When the threads of curiosity are pulled in this place, the spark of innovation ripples across industries. Those who make this place their home are giants, titans who pursue creative passion while leaving their mark.
Recording:
Creative.
Flexible.
Brilliant.
Clever.
Confident.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
They are courageous thought leaders set on changing the practice of dentistry and their corner of the world. More than the sum of their parts, we deconstruct the traits that bind these uncommon innovators,
Recording:
Humble.
Daring.
Discipline.
Playful.
Principled.
Spontaneous.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
To discover what makes them Contrary to Ordinary, where we explore the extraordinary. Hi there. I'm Dr. Kim Kutsch, host and founder at CariFree. I'm fascinated by what makes the paradigm shifters, world shakers, and art makers tick. Let's embark on a journey. Extraordinary is a place where ordinary people choose to exist. Together we will trek the peaks of possibility, illuminate the depths of resilience, and navigate the boundless landscape of innovation to discover how some of the most innovative dentists and thought leaders unlock their potential and became extraordinary.
On Contrary to Ordinary, we explore the motivation, lives, and the character of the innovators who see limitless potential around them, the people behind some of the largest paradigm shifts in the practice of dentistry and beyond. I want to start this episode a little differently by telling you a story about today's guest.
We were sitting in his car after a lovely weekend of wine tasting in the Barossa Valley in Southern Australia. He turned to me and asked, "Kim, how do you diagnose dental caries?" I replied that you use a microscope, digital radiographs, and caries detection dye, amongst other things. His reply was, "That's how you identify lesions, but I want to know, how do you diagnose dental caries?" Well, I couldn't come up with an answer. He then suggested to me that caries were actually a disease and that diseases can be diagnosed. Something switched on in my head and I never looked back.
I can honestly say that today's guest, Professor Hien Ngo, inspired me to think differently that day and has continued to be a source of wisdom and guidance ever since. Hien is the retired dean and head of the dental school and director of the Oral Health Center at the University of Western Australia. He is an educator who has taught about minimal intervention dentistry and cariology all over the world. Hien also has an amazing backstory. He was born in Vietnam, right in the middle of the war.
Professor Hien Ngo:
I was born during the war, so in a way, when you grow up during a wartime, you adapt to it and you don't feel that the war is going on. The war is normal life. I still remember at 17, that's the end of the war in 1975, I was evacuated as a refugee to the Philippines, to an American Air Force base. It's called the Guam Air Base.
And the first night we got out, that's when I appreciate, I said, "Something's really strange. It's so quiet. It's so disturbingly quiet," because my whole life, rocket be coming to the left and missile going to the right, and now looking at what's happening in Ukraine, I can fully sympathize with people.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
So then you managed to Guam. What happened after that?
Professor Hien Ngo:
After Guam, I went to Little Rock, Arkansas is Fort Chaffee. Army came, I think. That's where our paperwork was processed. Then my father got a job in New York City, so I went there with him for a year. But while we were in Guam, our family got split up, where my older sister got sent to Australia.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
So how did you decide to become a dentist?
Professor Hien Ngo:
Both of my sisters, there's only three of us in the family, and both of my sisters are doctors.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Oh, wow.
Professor Hien Ngo:
So when it came to my turn, I asked my sister for advice, "What should I do?" And the simple logic was that "We need a dentist in the family, so why don't you go and do dentistry?" But Aa a new arrival, a new migrant to country, you don't really have a clear idea what you want to be, to just do what the system allow you to do.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
So who were some of your mentors early in life?
Professor Hien Ngo:
The two most impactful mentors to me were Dr. Graham Mount the Guru in Glass and Minimal Intervention Dentistry.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right.
Professor Hien Ngo:
And another mentor of mine is Dr. John McIntyre. He's in charge of the cariology program in Adelaide, and he was doing amazing work, things like, "Why don't we put fluoride in sugar? And maybe that will have an link, not only in water, but in sugar." And I remember we applied for a research grant to the Australian Sugar Board, and our application was rejected because there's no link between sugar and caries, so why would we research that? That was a comment that came back to us.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Oh my goodness. What year was that?
Professor Hien Ngo:
Oh, that been about 1985, '86.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Wow.
Professor Hien Ngo:
And that's the same situation with smoking and cigarette manufacture, Kim.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah.
Professor Hien Ngo:
They would never accepted that there's a link between smoking and lung cancer, so what make you think that sugar has anything to do with caries?
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
We've dealt with that from a political standpoint in the US from way back in the '50s and '60s with the sugar lobby. That's not a unique problem to run into. Research is always influenced by politics.
Professor Hien Ngo:
That's right. Because politics influence funding for research.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
When you think about them, what kind of qualities about those mentors stand out for you? A couple of qualities about them.
Professor Hien Ngo:
The first thing is both of them are very patient. I mean, for them to deal with me is proof that they have a lot of patience and they were very generous. They guide me. They helped me in my career without me even realizing it until much later. They opened so many doors.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Mentors play such an important role in everybody's life, and I've said this so many times, but I think that in today's society, we really undervalue mentors.
Professor Hien Ngo:
I always tell my students at the dental school here, I said, "The most important quality in our graduate is what we call CARE," so it is an acronym. So it's C for compassion, I is altruism, R is respect, and E is excellence. I can teach them most of it, but I cannot teach them altruism because that is inbuilt in them.
And the only way that we can mentor somebody is through example, not by teaching, not by forcing them. We have to really shine as an example and be the beacon for others to follow. That's the secret to mentorship. And to be as good mentor, you shouldn't really try to influence the way a person think by telling them, but just show them.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
I totally agree that showing, not telling, is the key to successful mentorship. As the great American author, William Arthur Ward, said, "The mediocre teacher tells. The good teacher explains. The superior teacher demonstrates. The great teacher inspires." A common thread out of my conversations with extraordinary people is that they're always looking to give back to the world.
Professor Hien Ngo:
To give back to society, to do things that is right, and to stand up for the weak.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
For the people who don't have a voice.
Professor Hien Ngo:
Yes.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah, you think that comes from growing up the way you did?
Professor Hien Ngo:
My father always instilled that in me. When you live in a war-torn country, those value come back because you can lose everything, but those inbuilt values should stay.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
I've looked at your CV and there isn't much you haven't done or an award that you haven't won or been recognized for, and I was just sitting there taking notes and I'm thinking like, "Hien is truly a child of the world." You left war-torn Vietnam, and then you became this global citizen. You were in private practice and you started Adelaide. Then you went to teach in the dental school at Singapore. Then you came back to Australia to Queensland. And then from there you went to Kuwait?
Professor Hien Ngo:
Yes.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
I got that right. And then the United Arab Emirates?
Professor Hien Ngo:
That's correct.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And now you're back to Perth. You keep coming back to Australia, so Australia must feel like home to you.
Professor Hien Ngo:
Yeah. Australia is my true home, but my home and my heart is Vietnam.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah, that's interesting. Do you still have family in Vietnam, Hien?
Professor Hien Ngo:
Yeah. I go back to Vietnam quite regularly to work with dental school in Vietnam.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
How many dental schools are in Vietnam?
Professor Hien Ngo:
98 million people and 13 dental schools.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Sounds like they need more dental schools.
Professor Hien Ngo:
The problem is in some of the developing country, accreditation is not a big thing, so when you talk about 13, the quality of teaching is very, very wide and varied, so before we build more, we need to standardize it and make sure that there's a benchmark
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And everybody's being taught well and being taught to the same level.
Creating a standard of excellence in Hien's home country is a worthy goal. In the grand scheme of things, it wasn't that long ago that the creation of the ADA sought to do the same thing on the other side of the world. Hien has shared his expertise with probably thousands of students at this point, but for his next move, he's actually planning to return to the clinic in a public hospital.
Professor Hien Ngo:
What I want to do is really setting up a unit that manage patient with high caries, active caries, and erosion. So we prepare the patient before other people, other department will give them their restorative care and other cares, and then we'll take them back and do the maintenance for them, because I find that is very difficult for restorative dentists to change their mindset and start thinking about managing patients. They find it's too much and they're good at their hands. Let them do that, and I will work with a team to take care of the disease, as you put it, at the beginning.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah, that's still the missing piece is getting that knowledge transferred to clinical practice. We know that we need to be doing that. Or let me just say we know that that provides better outcomes. Going upstream, treating the disease provides a much better outcome for the patients, and we just need to get that integrated into daily practice everywhere.
Professor Hien Ngo:
The missing piece in clinical dentistry, is what I call true application of translational concept. You observe what happened in the mouth, you take it to the bench up to do your research, and then you find application solution and you bring it back to the mouth for application. Full circle of translational. We have not been doing that as far as managing disease is concerned,
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Not the entire profession. There's a huge need and we need as a profession to kind of get a grip on that.
Professor Hien Ngo:
But mind you, with people like yourself and Doug and John Featherstone in the US, I've seen that you guys have been very successful, because when I first go back and lecture in the US we talk about minimal intervention dentistry, we talk about preventive dentistry, people were not interested. Then you guys start the movement and you created Canberra, and it's snowballing, right?
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
We're making movement. We are advancing the ball.
Professor Hien Ngo:
Yes. Yes. You are. You are bouncing the ball. And that's why in the latest edition of the textbook, we actually made a point to go back and invite American writers, authors, to contribute to that textbook and it works. Kim, I asked you remember a story you tell people. You have a driveway and you have a car with flat tire with some nails on the pathway, and if you don't remove the nail, you keep having the flat tires, right?
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yep.
Professor Hien Ngo:
You used that in your lectures in the early days. I still remember.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah, I did. I did. Yeah. I used that as an analogy just to help people understand. If you just keep drilling and filling cavities and that's all you do, the patient's going to continue to get cavities and until you stop and figure out why they're getting cavities and treat that instead, and then they stop getting cavities and then everybody gets healthy and life is good, right?
Professor Hien Ngo:
Yeah. So for me, when I talk to the lay person, my patient, I use an analogy. If a person die of a heart attack, is a heart attack a disease? And patient tend to make a mistake. "Yes, it's a disease," and, "No, a heart attack is an event that happened to kill the patient." The disease is imbalance in lifestyle, cardiovascular disease over the last 30 years that didn't get attended to.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Often, all you need is a little change in thinking to help the patient understand the importance of dental health in the longer term. Hien has accomplished many different things and has been a trailblazer in dentistry, but what did he see as his proudest achievement?
Professor Hien Ngo:
To be able to help my mentors, Graham Mount and John McIntyde, to bring reality to their dream of introducing minimal intervention dentistry to the world, was able to bring that not only in Australia, my homeland, but to be able to bring it to foreign land like the Middle East. And it got accepted there. The reason why I went to Kuwait was one day when I was working in University of Queensland in Australia, I received a phone call from the dean in University of Kuwait, and he said, "I attended one of your lectures, and I want you to come over and help us implement it into our clinic."
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Wow.
Professor Hien Ngo:
I was so proud when I hear that, and I said he was sitting at the back of the room listening to this and to say, "I want that in my clinic to make a real impact on the quality of care that we're providing to the patient." That's what triggered my move to the Middle East.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
So how did that go there? Did they get minimal intervention dentistry and prevention pretty well organized there?
Professor Hien Ngo:
But the two things that's very important with the school, there; and you realize that Kuwait is a very rich country, so if they want to do something, I mean money has never stopped them. And the dean was Dr. Bebe Hani, the man of vision, the dental school that he set up there is... I always said to him, this is a fantasy land, the toys that he has and everything.
But he also have the vision of making an impact on patient life, so instead of allowing the specialists different specialty to run the dental course, he created a department of general dental practice in his school. I mean, many school have done that, but over there they run the show because for dentists training, you just want to train dentists with the basic skill first. Right? Not specialist skills.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
So there's been some challenges for you along the way, going through all this. How do you deal with challenges in your life?
Professor Hien Ngo:
Challenges is very simple. I use the principle of evidence-based dentistry. The acronym, it's called PICO, P-i-C-O.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Okay. PICO.
Professor Hien Ngo:
P is what is a problem. Define it. Then what are the intervention? There's a full range of intervention. They're never a single one. Then, for that patient, you have to compare all the intervention and say, "Which one would be effective for this individual?" Then the last letter and the acronym is O for outcome. You need to know the outcome so that you can measure the effectiveness of the intervention that you selected. If you don't achieve that income, you go back to the beginning again and you look at other intervention, you devise a new approach to it and what output that we measure.
The problem in convincing patient that they should listen to us is we're not clear on outcome, so if I ask you, "What outcome are you trying to achieve to know that this patient have been stabilized in caries is no longer active. What are the outcomes? There's immediate outcome and there's long-term outcome, and we need to negotiate with the patient so that the outcome is acceptable for both sides. And then we monitor in the practice, but we allow the patient to monitor it at home, because our objective in treating complex disease is to turn a change of behavior into a habit.
If the patient do not see that and do not receive positive reinforcement on a daily basis, it's not going to turn a change of behavior to a habit. And that's why we see we fail all the time. Patient will listen to you for a week or two, and then I will go, "I don't see any difference."
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah, and you bring up a really good point there, just outcomes, and we as a profession have never really measured our care by outcomes.
Professor Hien Ngo:
That's right.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
We do individually, that happens. I think driving goals is always to think about what's the outcome going to be? And are we providing a better outcome? Is this better than what we had before? Is it a better outcome for the patient?
Professor Hien Ngo:
But the outcome have to be personalized to the patient so they understand the value of what you do. There's no point talking about your outcome. We have to talk about our outcome between us and the patient. We have to have a common outcome in mind so that we can plan and move forward.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Dr. John Koys is a strong advocate for improving patient outcomes. Delivering a higher quality of life is a guiding principle that we as practitioners strive for with a transition back to the clinic on the horizon. I wonder what specifically excites Hien about his work these days?
Professor Hien Ngo:
There's a few changes, a few little project that I am working on that might change the way we teach in dental school. I'm talking about, for example, now, if you look at the gap we have in preparing student before they get into the clinic, one of the gap is in the Optec clinic. We tend to teach them skills, heart skills, surgical skill. They have to cut the cavity and all that, but they are not prepared with enough soft skill to go and face a patient.
So if they look at an X-ray, how does that X-ray reflect on the plastic tooth that you see? How do you detect caries? How do you detect lesions? All of that, they learn for the first time when they see patients. Am I right?
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah. Yeah.
Professor Hien Ngo:
Because the Optec don't actually cover that. It cover how to cut the cavity, how they do a crown preps.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And we're really good at that. And I think in some regard, that's easier to teach than the soft skills?
Professor Hien Ngo:
That's right. I think when we talk about any complex chronic disease, which caries would fall into that category.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Both are, yeah.
Professor Hien Ngo:
We have to realize that the result is happening at home, not in the office, because we cannot do everything for the patient. TI can write a script, but they have to choose to take the medicine and they have to understand, "What's the outcome? Do I feel better? Or do I need to go back to the doctor to get it checked again?" So I think those are very important to realize that the battle was fought at home.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Hi, Contrary to Ordinary listeners, we're going to take a short break from this conversation for our segment, "Questions with Dr. Kim." Don't go anywhere
In this segment, I'll answer a listener's question about their dental health. If you have a dental question that you want answered, then send it to Podcast@carifree.com. That's podcast at CariFree spelled C-A-R-I-F-R-E-E.com. And add "Questions with Dr. Kim" in the subject line. If your question gets read out on the show, then we'll send you a small gift to say thanks for checking in.
This week's question reads, "Hi, Kim. I've seen a few articles online about brushing your tongue as well as your teeth. Is this something I should be doing? If so, what's the best type of dental product to use?" Thanks so much for the question. Yes. It's generally good practice to brush your tongue as part of your daily oral hygiene routine. Brushing your tongue helps remove bacteria, food particles and dead cells that can contribute to bad breath or halitosis and affect your overall oral health.
You can brush your tongue with your toothbrush while you were brushing your teeth by extending your tongue gently but comfortably, gently brush your tongue from back to front. You could also select to use a tongue scraper. To use a scraper, extend your tongue and gently scrape from back to front. Avoid using excessive force to prevent irritation or damage to the tongue's sensitive tissue. You might also use an antimicrobial or antibacterial mouthwash after brushing your tongue, which further help reduce bacteria in your mouth and freshen your breath.
It's a good idea to clean your tongue once a day, preferably in the morning or as part of your regular brushing routine. Cleaning your tongue can improve your overall oral hygiene, reduce the risk for bad breath, and promote a healthier mouth. However, if you experience persistent bad breath despite regular tongue cleaning and good oral hygiene habits, it's a good idea to consult with your dental professional.
Chronic bad breath can sometimes be a sign of an underlying dental or medical issue that requires attention and treatment. And if you, dear listener, would like more information on all things dental, then head to CariFree.com, where we've got more resources on dental health and our line of CariFree products that can help you keep a healthy smile. Let's get back to the conversation.
So you're working on a project then to implement those soft skills into the dental school curriculum?
Professor Hien Ngo:
That's right. That's right. I'm trying to work that, and I'm actually collaborating with a few dental schools in Southeast Asia, and we are going to do that as a consortium.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Oh, awesome. And you can all share ideas and share results and challenges?
Professor Hien Ngo:
And across culture.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah.
Professor Hien Ngo:
What I learned in my career as I move around is understanding the different cultures and how to address, how people in different culture respond to different prompts. That is very important. So by having a consortium across country, you understand how to break barriers.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
You bring up a really good point, Hien. I've done quite a bit of teaching in Japan, and it's really interesting to me to watch them work, because the dentist literally never says a word to the patient.
Professor Hien Ngo:
That's true.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
They don't talk. Don talk to them at all. And in my practice, I like to talk. I'm curious, so I'm talking all the time to my patient, but I'm telling them what I'm doing, and we're going through that whole process, and you build a rapport and a relationship with your patients. And in Japan, it's more of a commodity transactional kind of relationship, and it's because they don't talk to them, they don't develop a relationship with them because they just don't talk. But that's a cultural thing.
Professor Hien Ngo:
But you see, if you think of yourself as a surgeon, you don't need to talk.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right. You're just doing surgery.
Professor Hien Ngo:
If you think yourself as a physician, you have to talk.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah. Yeah. Hien, you know, that's a really good point. But the first time I saw that in Japan, I love Japan, I have so many friends there, I absolutely love that country, but it was kind of surprising to me, kind of this idiosyncrasy of here's a country that is so relationship-based. You go into business and you do things in Japan, and these people become family. It's relationship-based. And at the end of the day, it's not about checks and balances and your balance sheet, it's about your relationship.
And then I walked into the dental practices and that doesn't get transferred to the dentist-patient relationship, which I found it really curious. Anyway, but I tell you, for me, that was a real eye-opener for just the cultural differences between countries and between cultures even in the same country, as well. But fascinating stuff. Well, good for you, Hien. That sounds like a really exciting project. So are you working on that right now or is that something that's coming up here when you retire from your current position in June?
Professor Hien Ngo:
Oh, no, no. I've been working on it for the last couple of years, but this is really, really gaining momentum. So I am looking forward in my retirement I will have more time. I'm not moving into retirement, really. I'm stopping working full time through a job, but I'm sure I'm going to be very busy doing things that I like to do,
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah, you absolutely will, Hien. You're going to stay busy. You're not going to be sitting on your thumbs, I know that about you, but you'll have the freedom and the flexibility to do some of these things that are really important to you, and I think in retirement, that's probably the greatest gift of "retirement," is just having flexibility to really focus on things that you value are really important to you.
And I think certainly what you're talking about here is legacy type issues, making a difference, giving back to society, all of those things, Hien. Yeah, you're going to have a great time.
Professor Hien Ngo:
We would only give back to society because we care. You see? CARE again.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Again, I love that acronym. I like that acronym a lot. I'm going to use that. I'm going to use that, but I'm going to give you credit for it.
Professor Hien Ngo:
Maybe I should trademark it. Only kidding.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
What goals do you have from here out? You're heading back to Adelaide? You have any other goals for your life from here on out? It sounds like you're going to be pretty busy.
Professor Hien Ngo:
I still want to be going back to Vietnam and help build up dentistry there. I do fair bit of work with dental school in Southeast Asia because I don't want to travel long distance anymore. It's too hard to sit on a plane for a long period of time.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And the jet lag is harder as you get older.
Professor Hien Ngo:
So what I do is I look around Australia and anything that I can reach within five hours, I'd be interested in, and anything beyond that a little bit too hard. Oh, I've got the disease and it's called golf.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Oh, that's a bad disease, Hien, and there's no cure.
Professor Hien Ngo:
I know, there's no cure. I'm actually go back and then do a course in theology. I started that last year, but I too busy with this current job to continue with it, and so I go back to Adelaide and try to finish that. And the education project on pre-clinical teaching, the soft skill.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
So the theology class, you're taking the class?
Professor Hien Ngo:
Yes, yes.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah. Would you consider yourself a spiritual person, Hien?
Professor Hien Ngo:
I'm a spiritual person.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
So that's one of your characteristics.
Professor Hien Ngo:
That's why I don't believe in luck.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah. Yeah.
Professor Hien Ngo:
I stopped saying "good luck." I say "be blessed."
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah, I like that as well, Hien. Absolutely. Be blessed. So if you could go back and talk to your 25-year-old self, what piece of advice would you give yourself?
Professor Hien Ngo:
That's a tough question, Kim. I would tell myself don't try so hard and don't rush too much. Even though on the outside, when you look at my career where I've been so busy doing different things, different countries, it take a toll. I would not go back and be so hyperactive. You can be a clinician, you can be a researcher, and you can be a teacher. But try to do all that.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Don't try to be all three at the same time,
Professor Hien Ngo:
Which I did for a while.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah, I know you did, right?
Professor Hien Ngo:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah. I think that's a really good point. Slow down, enjoy life. It goes by pretty fast, doesn't it?
Professor Hien Ngo:
That's right. And focus on doing things that is impactful.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah. That are making a difference.
Professor Hien Ngo:
Invest your time wisely because all of us have limited time, and that's the rarest commodity. It cannot be wasted. And just focus on it. And then you will say, do what? Or do things that put back to society.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
It is good to be reminded that our time is limited and that we have to do our best with this finite resource. I think that Hien has spent his time in an amazing way touching thousands of lives across the world. Thank you so much to Professor Hien Ngo for joining me today. And thank you for coming on this journey with me today. Here we aim to inspire and create connections. We can't do it without you.
If this conversation moved you, made you smile or scratched that little itch of curiosity today, please share it with the extraordinary people in your life. And if you do one thing today, let it be extraordinary.